Re: Re: Some suggestions for GCM from Jeff Waugh

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 15:51, Jeff Waugh wrote:

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul  3 15:36:09 2003

Jul 03 15:38:53 <jdub>  as in, getting it into the desktop release? it
needs to be proposed for 2.6 when there's a request from proposals
Jul 03 15:39:12 <Netsnipe>      no one proposed gcm? = )
Jul 03 15:39:19 <Netsnipe>      I thought some people just hated it
Jul 03 15:39:39 <Netsnipe>      it just seems weird that the clipboard
in GNOME is still neglected
Jul 03 15:39:50 <jdub>  no one proposed it for 2.4

Thats wierd, I once proposed it for 2.4, but that was some time ago. I
got some comments from people on the mailinglist that obviously never
used gcm before and did not saw the use of it, and then suddenly I was
to busy to focus myself on the gcm-project. (I was switching jobs). I
remember that I even create a garball-thingy for gcm of which you
explained me how to build it (or there must be two jdubs on
irc.gimp.org). However, doesn't matter. I agree if you say that gcm is
not ready for inclusion in GNOME Desktop... so it should not be included
at all.

Jul 03 15:40:05 <jdub>  bob2: 2.4 is feature and module frozen
Jul 03 15:40:30 <jdub>  Netsnipe: the extended clipboard, yes.
copy/paste works as expected.
Jul 03 15:40:31 <gus>   Netsnipe: the clipboard in gnome (mostly) works
fine afaict

Please note that the primary purpose of gcm is not to fix a clipboard
but to add features to the clipboard like saving the clipboard data
between sessions, saving clipboards to XML-files and keeping a history
of clipboards. Other features, planned for the .NET version of gcm, are
network transparancity.

Jul 03 16:24:45 <jdub>  Netsnipe: have you been given decrackification
privileges?
Jul 03 16:26:47 <jdub>  Netsnipe: because this is seriously odd stuff
Jul 03 16:27:55 <Netsnipe>      jdub: yes. I have CVS access.
Jul 03 16:32:14 <jdub>  Netsnipe: ok
Jul 03 16:32:16 <jdub>  Netsnipe: so
Jul 03 16:32:43 <jdub>  Netsnipe: it *might* be better as a notification
icon

Indeed. The plans for the .NET version are to ditch the gcmapplet and to
replace it with a notification icon. I hope that somebody fiends the
courage and time to port gcmapplet to a notification icon in the C
version of gcm.

Jul 03 16:33:08 <jdub>  the prefs box looks like someone tried to higify
it, but it just looks like cheese pizza with no meat

This is because I quick-ported it from Gnome/Gtk 1.x to Gnome/Gtk 2.x
and because the UI is not created using glade.

Jul 03 16:33:28 <jdub>  in the general tab (bad name?)
Jul 03 16:33:33 <jdub>  you have selection options
Jul 03 16:33:48 <jdub>  manage gnome clipboard / manage both / manage
mouse selection
Jul 03 16:33:57 <Netsnipe>      jdub: still too complex?
Jul 03 16:33:57 <jdub>  what does that mean?
Jul 03 16:34:03 <jdub>  can't it "just work"?

No it cannot just work.

A lot of discussion have been generated in the gnome mailinglists about
this feature. The simple fact is that the X protocol cannot cleanly
support a clipboard manager that manages the mouse-selection correctly.
Klipper and gcm do it all wrong, belive me. Polling the mouse-selection
is the only way to get mouse-selection management working.

This is why on gcm, the feature is turned off by default. And the
default should stay off until the X protocol can support a clipboard
manager for the mouse-selection.

Jul 03 16:34:19 <jdub>  and then under collection management there's
"enable clibboard management"
Jul 03 16:34:22 <jdub>  what does that mean?

It means exactly what it sais

Jul 03 16:34:30 <jdub>  isn't that what running gcm does?

yes

Jul 03 16:34:43 <jdub>  so, that's a bit confusing and/or unnecessary

no, if gcm is to be included on every GNOME desktop, I can imagine that
one does not wish to have a clipboard manager at all. For example for
security reasons. Many people often copy and paste private url's and
passwords. Many people don't want the system to keep a history of their
clipboard. Many people want to easily turn the managing of the clipboard
off. Perhaps it would be better to document that you can also set the
history-count to 1 in order to turn off clipboard management.

Jul 03 16:34:48 <Netsnipe>      jdub: there's gcm and gcmui
Jul 03 16:34:52 <Netsnipe>      you're running gcmui
Jul 03 16:35:00 <Netsnipe>      the only way to close is gcm is to kill
it
Jul 03 16:35:10 <Netsnipe>      so I guess that's why there's an enable
checkbox there.

Indeed

Jul 03 16:39:28 <jdub>  Netsnipe: also, the plugins page is kind of
weird
Jul 03 16:39:47 <jdub>  Netsnipe: they're not explained straight off,
and there are scrollbars
Jul 03 16:40:07 <jdub>  Netsnipe: and the only reason why there are
scrollbars is because the plugin library file is prominently displayed
:)
Jul 03 16:40:15 <jdub>  Netsnipe: which is... not entirely useful ;)
Jul 03 16:40:30 <jdub>  Netsnipe: also, you seem to be shipping the
hello world plugin
Jul 03 16:40:43 *       jdub doesn't know what the "Tools plugin" would
do
Jul 03 16:40:53 <jdub>  and clicking configure brings up an empty
dialogue
Jul 03 16:42:01 <jdub>  Netsnipe: perhaps an alternative interface could
be used for the clipboard manager?
Jul 03 16:42:20 <jdub>  Netsnipe: swatches or something, perhaps like
the theme manager list
Jul 03 16:42:40 <Netsnipe>      jdub: good idea.
Jul 03 16:42:56 <jdub>  the little applet dropdown doesn't have an
ellipsis to tell me there's more text in the item
Jul 03 16:43:05 <Netsnipe>      jdub: swatches wouldn't really work in
the applet though
Jul 03 16:43:14 <jdub>  actually, neither does the manager

Such ellipsis thingies are possible and I am sure that Netsnipe can
implement this .

Jul 03 16:43:19 <jdub>  Netsnipe: yeah, too bulky
Jul 03 16:48:27 <jdub>  Netsnipe: was that useful? :|
Jul 03 16:48:38 <Netsnipe>      jdub: thanks. I'll pass it upstream for
gcm.net
Jul 03 16:48:59 <Netsnipe>      jdub: some of your suggestions are
probably too big for 2.1
Jul 03 16:49:38 <jdub>  Netsnipe: if gcm.net is compelling enough, it
could force us to have the "what do we do now?" conversation wrt mono/c#
and python

Hmm.. gcm.net won't be compelling enought for that. I do, however, hope
that the products Ximian will be programming in .NET soon will be
compelling enough. The conversation will happen .. but probably not
because of gcm.net.

Jul 03 16:49:53 <jdub>  which'll be just great
Jul 03 16:50:06 <jdub>  no one will check code in for weeks on end

--

-- 
Philip Van Hoof, Software Developer @ Cronos
home: me at freax dot org
work: Philip dot VanHoof at cronos dot be
http://www.freax.be, http://www.freax.eu.org

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