John D. Ament | 6 Apr 01:32 2012
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Re: Date and content for Seam 3.1.1

I have a few small things for Seam JMS to support a 3.1.1 release, focusing on better support in AS 7.x and WLS 12c

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Jason Porter <lightguard.jp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Here are the tickets I'm thinking for a bundled 3.1.1 release, please comment:

https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-116 (Unless this is a weld bug)
https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMPERSIST-74 (Do we want to tackle all these INFO logging during startup by creating other jars?)
https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-325 (This may not actually be a problem)
https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-99 (This doesn't actually seem to be our problem)

Also we need to cleanup documentation for projects that really need it. Off the top of my head I'm thinking Security, Persistence especially.

If it seems like people are too busy, or I don't get many responses I'll probably drop this whole idea as I don't have time to do all of them myself.


On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 09:17, Jason Porter <lightguard.jp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Shane released 3.1.1 as I fixed the interceptor issue which was blocking some drools stuff, but I forgot about the others :) We could fix these and do a 3.1.2 for Solder.


On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 08:58, Cody Lerum <cody.lerum-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
1. This was fixed after 3.1.0.Final -
https://github.com/seam/faces/commit/3e2806d96f345d24e4860c267f5cba181a311435
which is https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-232

2. I would like to fix - https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMMAIL-34

3. I would like to see https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-312
fixed so that Seam 3 apps can use Richfaces push functionality but I
don't know how involved that is going to be.

DeltaSpike is obviously where the future is but I need
security,logging,faces,jpa support before I can consider it a
replacement.

I'm in favor of a 3.2 Seam release that replaces Solder with DS as I
think it will flush out some needs and give a better stepping stone to
DS, but I don't know where we are with that.

-C

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Jason Porter <lightguard.jp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Ove and Cody:
>
> Specifics please?
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 08:23, Cody Lerum <cody.lerum-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> There is one or two things that I would like to get into mail if there
>> is a release. There was also a fix for transactions that should make
>> it out.
>>
>> -C
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Jason Porter <lightguard.jp-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
>> wrote:
>> > It looks like we've had very little feedback on this. Are module leads
>> > too
>> > busy, or has the sentiment essentially become "we'll just use
>> > DeltaSpike"?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 20:56, Antoine Sabot-Durand
>> > <antoine-ygxJHNO4UWP6EMmYZC1IZg@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Jason,All
>> >>
>> >> April 30th is ok for me except that I won't provide a minor release.
>> >> There
>> >> will be a lot of new features and an API refactoring in Social.
>> >> Regarding the examples I could provide something better than the
>> >> "contentieux" application. I worked with Antonio Goncalves (leader of
>> >> Paris
>> >> Jug and Java Champion) and others on a Java EE 6 petstore
>> >> : https://github.com/agoncal/agoncal-application-petstore-ee6. It is a
>> >> pure
>> >> Java EE application but I could fork it to integrate Seam in it and
>> >> also
>> >> build an EAR version...
>> >> But I'm not sure to have enough time to do this for April 30th : I have
>> >> 3
>> >> talks on Devoxx France and it eats me a lot of time. Help would be
>> >> welcome,
>> >> especially on the front.
>> >>
>> >> regards,
>> >>
>> >> Antoine SABOT-DURAND
>> >> ---------------------------------------
>> >> Blog : http://www.next-presso.fr
>> >> Twitter ; http://twitter.com/antoine_sd
>> >> LinkedIn : http://fr.linkedin.com/in/antoinesabotdurand
>> >> 06 08 55 34 26
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Le 26 mars 2012 à 22:36, Jason Porter a écrit :
>> >>
>> >> I know I've said in the past we need to get on a date for this :) Here
>> >> I
>> >> am doing that now. I would like to propose April 30th for 3.1.1. This
>> >> would
>> >> be a minor release addressing bugs, documentation and examples.
>> >>
>> >> I know I blogged [1] about some additional examples so I think we have
>> >> those covered. We may not distribute them, but simple have them in a
>> >> README
>> >> or something like that. Of course I'm open to other ideas here.
>> >>
>> >> For bugs and documentation I'm looking for some help from all of you to
>> >> categorize issues and documentation spots we really need to focus on
>> >> correcting and improving. Does everyone feel like Friday would be
>> >> enough
>> >> time for people get that list in, or should we extend it to next
>> >> Wednesday?
>> >> I don't want to go too long and not have enough time to get things
>> >> done.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> [1]
>> >>
>> >> https://community.jboss.org/blogs/lightguardjp/2012/02/24/seam-3-examples
>> >> --
>> >> Jason Porter
>> >> http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com
>> >> http://twitter.com/lightguardjp
>> >>
>> >> Software Engineer
>> >> Open Source Advocate
>> >> Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling
>> >>
>> >> PGP key id: 926CCFF5
>> >> PGP key available at: keyserver.net, pgp.mit.edu
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> seam-dev mailing list
>> >> seam-dev-yyZXR9kdEHCUeimprIcsAw@public.gmane.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jason Porter
>> > http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com
>> > http://twitter.com/lightguardjp
>> >
>> > Software Engineer
>> > Open Source Advocate
>> > Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling
>> >
>> > PGP key id: 926CCFF5
>> > PGP key available at: keyserver.net, pgp.mit.edu
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > seam-dev mailing list
>> > seam-dev-yyZXR9kdEHCUeimprIcsAw@public.gmane.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev
>> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jason Porter
> http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com
> http://twitter.com/lightguardjp
>
> Software Engineer
> Open Source Advocate
> Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling
>
> PGP key id: 926CCFF5
> PGP key available at: keyserver.net, pgp.mit.edu



--
Jason Porter
http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/lightguardjp

Software Engineer
Open Source Advocate
Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling

PGP key id: 926CCFF5
PGP key available at: keyserver.net, pgp.mit.edu



--
Jason Porter
http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/lightguardjp

Software Engineer
Open Source Advocate
Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling

PGP key id: 926CCFF5
PGP key available at: keyserver.net, pgp.mit.edu

_______________________________________________
seam-dev mailing list
seam-dev-yyZXR9kdEHCUeimprIcsAw@public.gmane.org
https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev


<div>
<p>I have a few small things for Seam JMS to support a 3.1.1 release, focusing on better support in AS 7.x and WLS 12c<br><br></p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Jason Porter <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:lightguard.jp@...">lightguard.jp@...</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">Here are the tickets I'm thinking for a bundled 3.1.1 release, please comment:<div><br></div>
<div>
<a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMSECURITY-142" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMSECURITY-142</a>&nbsp;(maybe not doable?)</div>

<div><a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAM-133" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAM-133</a></div>
<div>
<a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-116" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-116</a>&nbsp;(Unless this is a weld bug)</div>

<div>
<a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMPERSIST-74" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMPERSIST-74</a>&nbsp;(Do we want to tackle all these INFO logging during startup by creating other jars?)</div>
<div>
<a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-325" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-325</a>&nbsp;(This may not actually be a problem)</div>

<div><a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-324" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-324</a></div>
<div><a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-44" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-44</a></div>

<div><a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMSECURITY-71" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMSECURITY-71</a></div>
<div>
<a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-99" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-99</a>&nbsp;(This doesn't actually seem to be our problem)</div>

<div><a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-311" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-311</a></div>
<div><a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-232" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-232</a></div>

<div><a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-168" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-168</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Also we need to cleanup documentation for projects that really need it. Off the top of my head I'm thinking Security, Persistence especially.</div>

<div><br></div>
<div>If it seems like people are too busy, or I don't get many responses I'll probably drop this whole idea as I don't have time to do all of them myself.<div><div class="h5">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 09:17, Jason Porter <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:lightguard.jp@..." target="_blank">lightguard.jp@...</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">Shane released 3.1.1 as I fixed the interceptor issue which was blocking some drools stuff, but I forgot about the others :) We could fix these and do a 3.1.2 for Solder.<div>

<div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 08:58, Cody Lerum <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:cody.lerum@..." target="_blank">cody.lerum@...</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote">1. This was fixed after 3.1.0.Final -<br><a href="https://github.com/seam/faces/commit/3e2806d96f345d24e4860c267f5cba181a311435" target="_blank">https://github.com/seam/faces/commit/3e2806d96f345d24e4860c267f5cba181a311435</a><br>
which is <a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-232" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-232</a><br><br>
2. I would like to fix - <a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMMAIL-34" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMMAIL-34</a><br><br>
3. I would like to see <a href="https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-312" target="_blank">https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-312</a><br>
fixed so that Seam 3 apps can use Richfaces push functionality but I<br>
don't know how involved that is going to be.<br><br>
DeltaSpike is obviously where the future is but I need<br>
security,logging,faces,jpa support before I can consider it a<br>
replacement.<br><br>
I'm in favor of a 3.2 Seam release that replaces Solder with DS as I<br>
think it will flush out some needs and give a better stepping stone to<br>
DS, but I don't know where we are with that.<br><span><br>
-C<br></span><div><div>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Jason Porter &lt;<a href="mailto:lightguard.jp@..." target="_blank">lightguard.jp@...</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Ove and Cody:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Specifics please?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 08:23, Cody Lerum &lt;<a href="mailto:cody.lerum@..." target="_blank">cody.lerum@...</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; There is one or two things that I would like to get into mail if there<br>
&gt;&gt; is a release. There was also a fix for transactions that should make<br>
&gt;&gt; it out.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; -C<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Jason Porter &lt;<a href="mailto:lightguard.jp@..." target="_blank">lightguard.jp@...</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; It looks like we've had very little feedback on this. Are module leads<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; too<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; busy, or has the sentiment essentially become "we'll just use<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; DeltaSpike"?<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 20:56, Antoine Sabot-Durand<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:antoine@..." target="_blank">antoine@...</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Hi Jason,All<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; April 30th is ok for me except that I won't provide a minor release.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; will be a lot of new features and an API refactoring in Social.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Regarding the examples I could provide something better than the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; "contentieux" application. I worked with Antonio Goncalves (leader of<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Paris<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Jug and Java Champion) and others on a Java EE 6 petstore<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; :&nbsp;<a href="https://github.com/agoncal/agoncal-application-petstore-ee6" target="_blank">https://github.com/agoncal/agoncal-application-petstore-ee6</a>. It is a<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; pure<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Java EE application but I could fork it to integrate Seam in it and<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; also<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; build an EAR version...<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; But I'm not sure to have enough time to do this for April 30th : I have<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; 3<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; talks on Devoxx France and it eats me a lot of time. Help would be<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; welcome,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; especially on the front.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; regards,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Antoine SABOT-DURAND<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; ---------------------------------------<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Blog : <a href="http://www.next-presso.fr" target="_blank">http://www.next-presso.fr</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Twitter ; <a href="http://twitter.com/antoine_sd" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/antoine_sd</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; LinkedIn :&nbsp;<a href="http://fr.linkedin.com/in/antoinesabotdurand" target="_blank">http://fr.linkedin.com/in/antoinesabotdurand</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; 06 08 55 34 26<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Le 26 mars 2012 &agrave; 22:36, Jason Porter a &eacute;crit :<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I know I've said in the past we need to get on a date for this :) Here<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; am doing that now. I would like to propose April 30th for 3.1.1. This<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; would<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; be a minor release addressing bugs, documentation and examples.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I know I blogged [1] about some additional examples so I think we have<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; those covered. We may not distribute them, but simple have them in a<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; README<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; or something like that. Of course I'm open to other ideas here.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; For bugs and documentation I'm looking for some help from all of you to<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; categorize issues and documentation spots we really need to focus on<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; correcting and improving. Does everyone feel like Friday would be<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; enough<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; time for people get that list in, or should we extend it to next<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Wednesday?<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I don't want to go too long and not have enough time to get things<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; done.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; [1]<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href="https://community.jboss.org/blogs/lightguardjp/2012/02/24/seam-3-examples" target="_blank">https://community.jboss.org/blogs/lightguardjp/2012/02/24/seam-3-examples</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Jason Porter<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href="http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href="http://twitter.com/lightguardjp" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/lightguardjp</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Software Engineer<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Open Source Advocate<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; PGP key id: 926CCFF5<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; PGP key available at: <a href="http://keyserver.net" target="_blank">keyserver.net</a>, <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu" target="_blank">pgp.mit.edu</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; seam-dev mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href="mailto:seam-dev@..." target="_blank">seam-dev@...</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; <a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Jason Porter<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="http://twitter.com/lightguardjp" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/lightguardjp</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Software Engineer<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Open Source Advocate<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; PGP key id: 926CCFF5<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; PGP key available at: <a href="http://keyserver.net" target="_blank">keyserver.net</a>, <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu" target="_blank">pgp.mit.edu</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; seam-dev mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="mailto:seam-dev@..." target="_blank">seam-dev@...</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href="https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/seam-dev</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Jason Porter<br>
&gt; <a href="http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com</a><br>
&gt; <a href="http://twitter.com/lightguardjp" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/lightguardjp</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Software Engineer<br>
&gt; Open Source Advocate<br>
&gt; Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; PGP key id: 926CCFF5<br>
&gt; PGP key available at: <a href="http://keyserver.net" target="_blank">keyserver.net</a>, <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu" target="_blank">pgp.mit.edu</a><br>
</div></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Jason Porter<br><a href="http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com</a><br><a href="http://twitter.com/lightguardjp" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/lightguardjp</a><br><br>Software Engineer<br>Open Source Advocate<br>Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling<br><br>PGP key id: 926CCFF5<br>PGP key available at: <a href="http://keyserver.net" target="_blank">keyserver.net</a>, <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu" target="_blank">pgp.mit.edu</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Jason Porter<br><a href="http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://lightguard-jp.blogspot.com</a><br><a href="http://twitter.com/lightguardjp" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/lightguardjp</a><br><br>Software Engineer<br>Open Source Advocate<br>Author of Seam Catch - Next Generation Java Exception Handling<br><br>PGP key id: 926CCFF5<br>PGP key available at: <a href="http://keyserver.net" target="_blank">keyserver.net</a>, <a href="http://pgp.mit.edu" target="_blank">pgp.mit.edu</a><br>
</div></div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>

Gmane