jastrachan | 18 Feb 12:47 2005

Re: Re: static versus dynamic typing policy

On 18 Feb 2005, at 11:24, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
>> Groovy has a reputation - well deserved - for being confusing and 
>> often
>> emitting confusing error messages.  The power users love Groovy for
>> it.  The many, many people who have tried Groovy and dropped it like 
>> a cold
>> fish hate it for exactly this reason.  You guys have a high tolerance 
>> for
>> errors and confusing stuff and slugging your way through it.  Most 
>> people
>> don't.  And it's rules and confusing behavior like this that keeps 
>> most
>> people away, and is why this list has so few people left 
>> participating on it.
> Interesting, but some time ago--before all your bile and anger, and
> while the activity on Groovy was at its lowest level,  we kept having
> new users all the time. The figures were still growing all the time.
> Always more and more subscribees.
> Unfortunately, I don't have all the rights on the server to make those
> stats alone, but I'll try to find some time to compile some results
> with the help of some uber-despots.

FWIW on beaver you can run these 2 scripts...

listinfo --project=groovy --list=dev

You might have to be an uber-despot though.

Current stats are


which is pretty good for a codehaus project; especially as all the 
mailing lists are available on gmane so you don't have to subscribe to 
the list, you can use web/RSS/NNTP instead.

Indeed by mail list subscriptions at least its one of the most popular 
projects at codehaus. (From my quick review of the stats we're the most 
popular project by some margin in both user & dev sides).

Seems like Groovy is getting more popular, not less.

>> The problem is that this confuses people - there's no f() method and 
>> Groovy
>> won't tell me until runtime - and when it does tell me it'll give me 
>> an
>> error message that I likely will not understand until I'm a Groovy 
>> guru.
> Btw, PHP won't tell you f() doesn't exist either. You have to remember
> that in most scripting languages, the dynamic typing aspect defers the
> resolution at runtime. That's how that works. But we do want to allow
> users choosing static typing to have the same level of error reporting
> as they would have in Java. We aim at proposing the best of both
> worlds, depending on your use cases, or your taste. So I really don't
> understand why you blame us for that. We've always aimed at that since
> day one.

Agreed. We're trying to be a scripting language, not Java / C#

[snip lots of other comments I agreed with]