18 Apr 00:45
Re: Visual Studio 2008
From: Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Visual Studio 2008
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.web.server.aida
Date: 2008-04-17 22:45:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Visual Studio 2008
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.web.server.aida
Date: 2008-04-17 22:45:02 GMT
Nico,
Thanks for sharing your first hand experience. I still don't think of myself as being "good" with Smalltalk, meaning I do not find the most compact way of doing most things, but I am constantly comparing what I can do to my experience with VB which was always FRUSTRATED. Anytime I wanted to do "that one little thing" that wasn't "built in," it was terrible.
Thanks again; I'll pass this on!
Rob
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Nicolas Petton <petton.nicolas <at> gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Rob,
I worked on the VS 2008 project all last summer for a local company.
It was very painful. IMHO, when you know Smalltalk and its environment,
you absolutely don't want to go back. It seems that you have the choice,
while I didn't.
Ok, building the UI with VS is easy. But when you need to edit the code
by hand, it's a nightmare. But, correct me if I'm wrong, building the UI
with Aida or Seaside is very easy too, it only takes a few minutes, and
you have the advantage of readability, easy maintenance and portability.
Not to mention all smalltalk tools like the debugger, it changed my
life :)
I wrote somewhere on the net a quotation:
question: "Why do people use C++ or Java instead of Smalltalk?"
answer: "Why do they smoke?"
Cheers!
Nico
Le jeudi 17 avril 2008 à 16:24 -0400, Rob Rothwell a écrit :> _______________________________________________> We have another application developer at our hospital who has been
> looking at Visual Studio 2008.
>
> Don't send the hate mail...!
>
> We were listing pro's and con's of Smalltalk with Aida (or yes, even
> Seaside!) vs Visual Studio, and I came to the conclusion that it
> depends on the problem you are trying to solve. The "instant" drag
> and drop data sources and page layouts in Visual Studio were certainly
> impressive, but the underlying code is most definitely NOT impressive.
>
> Anyway, my advice was if you have a complex problem domain, Smalltalk
> is hands down the winner. If all you need to do is create Crystal
> Reports and paged tables, tracking boards, that sort of thing, and you
> don't even need to "code," why NOT use Visual Studio. But the minute
> you need to go a little deeper, the code generated by Visual Studio
> is, pardon my language, going to kick you in the ass (in my opinion).
>
> In other words, once your drag and drop days are over, you are not
> having fun anymore!
>
> Any other thoughts, so I can help him make an intelligent decision?
> Maybe both are right, depending on the job?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
> Aida mailing list
> Aida <at> aidaweb.si
> http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida
<div> <p>Nico,<br><br>Thanks for sharing your first hand experience. I still don't think of myself as being "good" with Smalltalk, meaning I do not find the most compact way of doing most things, but I am constantly comparing what I can do to my experience with VB which was always FRUSTRATED. Anytime I wanted to do "that one little thing" that wasn't "built in," it was terrible.<br><br>Thanks again; I'll pass this on!<br><br>Rob<br><br>On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Nicolas Petton <<a href="mailto:petton.nicolas <at> gmail.com">petton.nicolas <at> gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></p> <div class="gmail_quote"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote">Hi Rob,<br><br> I worked on the VS 2008 project all last summer for a local company.<br> It was very painful. IMHO, when you know Smalltalk and its environment,<br> you absolutely don't want to go back. It seems that you have the choice,<br> while I didn't.<br><br> Ok, building the UI with VS is easy. But when you need to edit the code<br> by hand, it's a nightmare. But, correct me if I'm wrong, building the UI<br> with Aida or Seaside is very easy too, it only takes a few minutes, and<br> you have the advantage of readability, easy maintenance and portability.<br> Not to mention all smalltalk tools like the debugger, it changed my<br> life :)<br><br> I wrote somewhere on the net a quotation:<br><br> question: "Why do people use C++ or Java instead of Smalltalk?"<br> answer: "Why do they smoke?"<br><br> Cheers!<br><br> Nico<br><br> Le jeudi 17 avril 2008 à 16:24 -0400, Rob Rothwell a écrit :<br><div> <div></div> <div class="Wj3C7c">> We have another application developer at our hospital who has been<br> > looking at Visual Studio 2008.<br> ><br> > Don't send the hate mail...!<br> ><br> > We were listing pro's and con's of Smalltalk with Aida (or yes, even<br> > Seaside!) vs Visual Studio, and I came to the conclusion that it<br> > depends on the problem you are trying to solve. The "instant" drag<br> > and drop data sources and page layouts in Visual Studio were certainly<br> > impressive, but the underlying code is most definitely NOT impressive.<br> ><br> > Anyway, my advice was if you have a complex problem domain, Smalltalk<br> > is hands down the winner. If all you need to do is create Crystal<br> > Reports and paged tables, tracking boards, that sort of thing, and you<br> > don't even need to "code," why NOT use Visual Studio. But the minute<br> > you need to go a little deeper, the code generated by Visual Studio<br> > is, pardon my language, going to kick you in the ass (in my opinion).<br> ><br> > In other words, once your drag and drop days are over, you are not<br> > having fun anymore!<br> ><br> > Any other thoughts, so I can help him make an intelligent decision?<br> > Maybe both are right, depending on the job?<br> ><br> > Thanks,<br> ><br> > Rob<br> </div> </div>> _______________________________________________<br> > Aida mailing list<br> > <a href="mailto:Aida <at> aidaweb.si">Aida <at> aidaweb.si</a><br> > <a href="http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida" target="_blank">http://lists.aidaweb.si/mailman/listinfo/aida</a><br> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div>
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