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Gmane
From: Al Schlaf <aulus <at> MCHSI.COM>
Subject: Re: Cicero, Goldwater and Caldwell
Newsgroups: gmane.education.classics
Date: Friday 6th April 2012 00:25:10 UTC (over 5 years ago)
Caldwell made up a lot of  "quotes" that are bandied about as legit  Cicero

quotes in that dreadful book, "A Pillar of Iron."

I kind of created a minor firestorm on one quotes site, Liberty Tree, 
regarding his supposed quote on treason.  It appears all over the place,
but 
never with a citation of from which work or speech and most definitely, 
never with the "original" Latin.  That is, of course, because Caldwell made

it up.  She does note it with an asterisk as coming from Sallust.  I
checked 
all of Sallust and that is an out and out lie.

It never ceases to amaze me that those who toss these bogus quotes around 
cannot see that they only ultimately hurt their case by not backing up
where 
the quote is from and not being able to quote the original Latin or Greek.

Al Schlaf
Des Moines, IA


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "M.A. Andreacchio" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 7:40 AM
Subject: [CLASSICS-L] Cicero, Goldwater and Caldwell


> In March 2010, a member of this Discussion Group raised a question about
a 
> quote often attributed to Cicero (see 
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.education.classics/46805).
>
> Pasted below are details relative to the problem that was left unsolved. 
> Is there a way to make the details available to the general internet 
> public attached to the March 2010 discussion?
>
> Best regards, Marco Andreacchio - A 1998 article by William Safire leads 
> me to conclude that the Cicero attribution is retraceable to the author
of 
> the 1965 Pillar of Iron. Pasted below as relevant details are two 
> Ciceronian passages that come closest to the attributed passage. They are

> drawn from the Oration IV against Catilina (my translation).
>
> "ON LANGUAGE; OUT OF THE WHOLE CLOTH"
> By William Safire
> Published: July 19, 1998
>
> "As best I can reconstruct it, the inflammatory speech was largely
written 
> by Hess, with a quotation -- of Marcus Tullius Cicero defying the 
> conspiratorial Catiline -- contributed by Professor Jaffa; Goldwater (or 
> one of his acknowledged ghosts) wrote later that ''I had heard it earlier

> from the writer Taylor Caldwell.''" (viewable at 
> http://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/19/magazine/on-language-out-of-the-whole-cloth.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm)
>
> -
>  Harry Jaffa's line: "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of

> liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the 
> pursuit of justice is no virtue!"
>
> Spurious attribution to Cicero: "I must remind you, Lords, Senators, that

> extreme patriotism in the defense of freedom is no crime, and let me 
> respectfully remind you that pusillanimity in the pursuit of justice is
no 
> virtue in a Roman."
>
> I do not think Jaffa has ever understood the "extreme" exercise of virtue

> as "extreme patriotism."
>
> ---
> From CICERO, Oratio in Catilinam IV:
>
> "But why do I call your attention to these men and civil orders that 
> private fortunes, the common republic, and finally liberty, which is the 
> most delightful thing, called forth to defend the welfare of the 
> fatherland? There is no servant, provided his servitude is a tolerable 
> condition, who is not horrified before the daring of citizens; who does 
> not crave for stability; who, however much he dares or has it in his 
> power, is not of the will to benefit the common welfare.
>
> ...
>
> Wherefore, of the supreme welfare of your Roman people, of your wives and

> children [liberis], of the altars and sacred hearths, of sanctuaries and 
> temples, of shelters and dwellings, of empire and liberty, of the welfare

> of Italy, of the whole Commonwealth, decree as you have instituted with 
> diligence and fortitude. You have a Consul who shall not doubt in obeying

> your decrees and who can defend them and, as long as he lives, place 
> himself before them as their guarantor."
>
 
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