Build systems (again) [Was Re: Effective use of C?++ exceptions?]

IANM, the pause is like a constant time _per-project_, not depending on the 
project size. One would almost that there is a Sleep(1000). Still, my 
memories may be wrong, as that's from the bad times, before we switched over 
to Jam. ;p

Btw, Noel, just read your tests, and now I'm depressed. :/ We are using Jam, 
and it is excellent for incremental builds. But I was hoping to switch over 
to SCons to take advantage of its network cache. The concept of network 
cache should improve build times in a team effort a lot. E.g. if someone 
changes some h file and causes some cpps to rebuild, at the time he checks 
it in, all the objs are already in the cache, and it doesn't cost you much 
to sync and compile the newest version.

One specific problem I saw with Jam was that it is not possible to explain 
to it not to relink exe if dll is relinked. Not that I know how, anyway. 
That makes modifications in low-level library slow to compile, because it is 
relinking a chain of dlls for no reason. In more general, it is very fast, 
flexible etc, but at some point, its flexibility ends, because there are 
some concepts that you cannot do with it. Limitations are not in the 
procedural part of the syntax, which, even though a bit shady at parts, was 
able to take any algorithm I tried to implement in it. But in the way that 
dependencies are layed out. Some complex dependency concepts cannot be 
expressed, and some things are not possible at all - i.e. lot of times it 
would be nice to just load a text file do something with it, or just write 
out a list of files so it can be passed over to Zip, etc. Those can be done, 
but with so much hacks my head hurts.

So, I've come to yearn for a full-blown scripted build tool. Is that too 
much?

This all smells like "roll your own" to me. I so hate reinventing the wheel, 
but... if anyone knows of a build-tool wheel that (a) is _round_ and (b) has 
a hole to put an axle exactly _in the middle_, please, please, please let me 
know. :)))

sorry for the rant...

Alen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Noel Llopis" <nll_pub <at> convexhull.com>
To: <sweng-gamedev <at> midnightryder.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 13:59
Subject: Re: [Sweng-gamedev] Effective use of C?++ exceptions?

> On Wednesday 08 June 2005 23:58, Kelly Brock wrote:
>> Add gui update time and those simple messages CAN be a notable
>> problem.
>
> I don't buy the theory that those delays are caused by printing messages 
> to
> the output window. There are plenty of other messages going by really fast
> without causing those problems, yet the build messages consistently are
> about 1 second apart. The only time I've seen major delays for
> OutputDebugString() is when the system gets flooded with debug messages 
> and
> has to wait to print some more.
>
> Besides, the same delay happens when you run devenv from the command line,
> and there are no GUI updates there.
>
> I think it's really doing some sort of really slow, really bad dependency
> checking.
>
>
> --Noel
> Games from Within
> http://www.gamesfromwithin.com
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> 

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