Re: Debian logo

http://blog.thedebianuser.org/?p=195

2008/12/3 Sokoun LOR <sokoun.lor <at> gmail.com>:
> Hi,
> I was watching toy story and now, I'm wondering if the logo on Buzz
> lightyear's chin was debian logo.
> Regards

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Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich

On Monday 01 December 2008 15:42:20 Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:05:07PM +0000, Mark Brown a écrit :
> > FWIW similar issues apply in most of Europe too.
>
> Thank you for the information. For Antartica, the situation of
> discrimination has rapidly and positively evolved and I am proud to
> announce to the Project that in the French territories, women are allowed
> to apply for a job since a few years ago.
>
> Do we have DDs in Oceania, South America, Africa and Asia who can report
> about the situation of discrimination on their continent so that we can
> integrate this information to better manage our Project?

 Hehe. To be honest, it is way easier for me to think of Debian as a 
virtual multi-cultural country which has its own constitution, laws and 
habits, budget and resources, population (users and developers), gross 
domestic product (official releases), elections, and leader. Since I doubt 
anybody knows how to make so many different cultures to co-exist together 
flawlessly some dissensions enter the scene from time to time just to prove 
that this is multi-cultural country after all. The paradox is that if you try 
to import some tons of tolerance to such a country in order to alleviate 
these dissensions, you risk to fade out its multi-cultural beauty. So, there 
is nothing to be angry with, but enjoy your Debian citizenship 

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Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich

On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 09:53:36AM -0200, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 01:00:24PM -0800, Baz wrote:
> > > It's only going to take one over-zealous U.S. attorney, to get hold of this
> > > and run with it.

> > We're talking about a posting for a job in Switzerland.  Don't be absurd.

> That stopped being true the moment some of the more opiniated members
> started making statements that were in no way restricted to that particular
> job offer posting, and that, if taken by someone to be an endorsment of the
> "real position of the Debian project, even if it is not officially written
> anywhere", would cause trouble.

No, it wouldn't.  Please refrain from armchair-lawyering the legal systems
of countries you don't appear to actually be familiar with.

FFS, Debian deliberately ignores software patents even though we know a
significant number of patent holders could *win* in a US court if they ever
brought suit against us - but now people want to worry about whether or not
Debian is seen as endorsing the *idea* of age discrimination for fear of
lawsuits?

(No, this is not an invitation to revisit Debian's policy on patents.
Anybody who takes it as such will be summarily killfiled and/or flamed.)

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Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/

Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:14:18 -0500
Daniel Dickinson <cshore <at> fionavar.ca> wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:25:11 -0800
> Steve Langasek <vorlon <at> debian.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 01:00:24PM -0800, Baz wrote:
> > > It's only going to take one over-zealous U.S. attorney, to get
> > > hold of this and run with it.
> > 
> > We're talking about a posting for a job in Switzerland.  Don't be
> > absurd.
> > 
> 
[snip could sue]

I should add though that even though a lawsuit could be brought it
probably won't be.  This isn't exactly a high profile job, and this
sort of thing is usually complaints-driven.  Unless someone complains
to the appropriate body nothing will happen.

Regards,

Daniel

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Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich

Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich

Noah Meyerhans wrote:
> Personally, I can't see how any company that would turn away a more
> qualified candidate in favor of one less qualified based solely on
> something like age has much hope of lasting very long.  Nor would I be
> sorry to see it go.

Well, in my experience, having two similarly skilled candidates, age can
be a factor for hiring, as hiring under 35 yeras old people can get
you a nice "discount" in taxes where I live. But of course I would not
advertise it this way. 

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Re: Debian's job is not to help people who think the world is unfair

On Thursday 2008-11-27, Giacomo A. Catenazzi wrote:
> Jurij Smakov wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 06:17:45PM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
> >> also sprach Gunnar Wolf <gwolf <at> gwolf.org> [2008.11.26.1807 +0100]:
> PS: For the job position I've two comment:
> - google ask people to leave home for 3 months (learning in silicon
> valley). This is discrimination of fathers or mothers?

no, as it leaves the decision wether or not they want to commit to that 
time-investment up to the father/mother 
(and it isn't that unusual e.g. people working in the navy often have long 
deployments away from home, yet lots of 'm have families)

> - Usually the age limit is not an hard limit, but it means:
> you could learn a lot, we don't require lot of experience, but we will
> pay you at lower scale. I think other non-discriminatory formulation
> should be prefered, but ... we are technical people, not fluent English
> writer.

if it's not a hard limit don't post it as a requirement, which by its very 
definition _is_ a hard limit.
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Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich

"Rafal Czlonka" <rafal.czlonka <at> googlemail.com> writes:

> > Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
> > discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing else, they are
> > (we hope!) discriminating based on demonstrated ability to perform the
> > job functions. So we can't simply request job adverts avoid
> > "discriminatory job offers".
> 
> Abilities, knowledge, experience, etc. can be acquired;

Right. But just because an employer discriminates on the basis of any
of these criteria doesn't stop it being discrimination. I repeat,
employers *must* discriminate, usually based on some attributes of the
employee.

> age cannot.

Indeed. So you've found at least one criterion that you would prefer
to be absent from those used to discriminate.

What I'm pointing out is that “discrimination” cannot be expected to
not occur, because it's entirely essential to the process. Clearly
what is being objected to is *not* the act of discrimination, but what
particular *criteria* are used for discrimination.

If you want to prevent *unfair* discrimination, you must first agree
what specifically constitutes fair or unfair criteria; if you want to
prevent *objectionable* criteria, you must first agree which specific
criteria are objectionable.

Good luck with that.

-- 
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  `\   porch light on all day. When I got home the front door wouldn't |
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Ben Finney

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Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:01:54PM +0000, Rafal Czlonka wrote:
> > Any employer selecting employees to hire is, by definition,
> > discriminating based on particular criteria. If nothing else, they are
> > (we hope!) discriminating based on demonstrated ability to perform the
> > job functions. So we can't simply request job adverts avoid
> > "discriminatory job offers".
>
> Abilities, knowledge, experience, etc. can be acquired; age cannot.

This seems like a fairly arbitrary and incomplete definition of what would
constitute non-objectionable discriminatory criteria.

If I was wanting to hire a telephone operative, the ability to speak would be
essential. The ability to see would be essential for driving and the ability to
walk might be essential for some other jobs.

If I wanted to hire a male model, the ability to be male would be essential!

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Re: Linux System Engineer (100%) in Zurich

Le Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:55:09PM +1100, Ben Finney a écrit :
> 
> What seems to be the issue is that some people find the particular
> stated discriminatory *criteria* to be objectionable ones. So
> presumably you would want such a request to say something like
> “Please no job offers that discriminate based on objectionable
> criteria”.

Hi all,

I would rather propose:

"Please post only job offers that discriminate people who send too many
messages to too many mailing lists." Then there would be a direct benefit for
Debian.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan

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Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring

With the upload of debian-maintainers version 1.49, the following
changes to the keyring have been made:

dm:joerg <at> alea.gnuu.de
    Full name: Jörg Sommer
    Added key: 945C748020CE177DCCD56E44C1ED266701F55480

A summary of all the changes in this upload follows.

Debian distribution maintenance software,
on behalf of,
Anibal Monsalve Salazar <anibal <at> debian.org>

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:46:28 +1100
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Version: 1.49
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian Maintainer Keyring Team <d-m-team <at> lists.alioth.debian.org>
Changed-By: Anibal Monsalve Salazar <anibal <at> debian.org>
Description: 
 debian-maintainers - GPG keys of Debian maintainers
Closes: 505844
Changes: 
 debian-maintainers (1.49) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * Add Debian maintainer Jörg Sommer. Closes: #505844
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