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From: vasil <vasil.s.d-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w <at> public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Fuctional Programming in Qi, and message boards
Newsgroups: gmane.lisp.qi
Date: Tuesday 27th March 2012 21:54:25 UTC (over 4 years ago)
Did Bjarne Stroustrup give his books to someone for free?
Go to his personal site and try to find free books:

But, returning to FPQi:
you have ability to read FPQi book on-line and to learn, haven't you?

By developing programming languages one cannot earn much money. And for
Mark there are two possible ways to get money to support his work:
1. try to sell his books and
2. ask for support from community.

With Qi he went first way, with Shen he goes second one.

Shen is open source, free (see Shen license
and already has a lot of
documentation with samples (see:
for docs and
for libraries and code samples)

Shen community is open to everyone: if you need on-line pdf with Shen
documentation - please, start to learn Shen and to write book for
novices. After you've learned Shen rather good, you'll have a good book
for novices. And you'll be able to contribute to project by publishing
this book on-line.

But I think that it is wrong to insist that Mark must spend his time and
efforts to make pdf of FPQi book and place it on-line.
There are a lot of more urgent work for him in Shen project.

About community you describe: it is an idealized view, but step by step
we go here.

There are a lot of libraries already. There are several serious ports of
Shen to different platforms. There are a lot of documentation.

Do not forget that Shen is very young project. And there are not many
developers involved in the project to move project to high level with
video lessons, etc, at once.

You may support Shen (if you really interested in) by many ways:
1. Learn Shen and write articles, books, whatever you want;
2. Write critical articles, analyze weak and strong sides of Shen;
3. Write libraries, programs and so on and publish them;
4. Donate to support Mark Tarver's work;
5. Buy FPQi book (Qi and Shen have 80% in common) to support Mark
Tarver's work;
8... there are a lot of ways to help project...


> You do realize that I can wget the entire book, and paste it together
> with a little time and effort.  Telling someone to pay for (n), when
> they can get (n) for free - legal or not - is a sure-fire way to make
> sure that no one pays for (n).
> Not only that, if people have to pay for your book, and they don't
> have a way to get your book (or are too lazy to wget it and paste it
> together), then they won't learn how to use your language.  How does
> this benefit you?
> Right now, you need money.  You also need to propagate your language
> as far and wide as possible.  The best way to do the latter is to make
> it as easy as possible for anyone, of any skill level, to learn to use
> your language.  If you can find a way to acquire the former (money),
> while doing the latter (teaching people how to use Shen, or at least
> giving them the resources with which they can teach themselves), then
> you have created a feedback cycle which benefits you every step of the
> way.
> So, how do you get money, without necessarily charging people for your
> intellectual property?  You create a community around your
> intellectual property, and then salt that community with ads.  Think
> I'm full of crap?  Look at facebook.  Now, imagine a social network,
> devoted solely to learning.  I'm a contributor to nearly a dozen
> information collectives and collaborative communities - very obscure
> ones, at that, devoted to reverse-engineering old-school video games,
> and in some cases translating them into English or other languages -
> and I believe that you have something here that is good, and which
> should succeed.  But you won't be able to do it on your own.
> You're already taking a chance, bringing a new language into the
> world.  What's another risk, compared to that?
> ****
> Too Long; Didn't Read:
> I agree that the person who wrote FPIQ should be compensated for it; I
> doubt that the current business model will give him adequate
> compensation.  The business model which will best compensate the
> author for his efforts is, I think, an ad-driven online community,
> which exists to provide a service (learning functional programming
> using Shen).  Such a community would help people learn functional
> programming using Shen by providing videos, podcasts, ebooks, irc, and
> an internet forum - where users can interact with each other and with
> volunteers, and where questions can be passed to the language
> creator(s) by popular vote and moderator approval.
> The secondary goal of this community is to develop a sort of proving
> grounds for features, libraries, extensions, and ports of Shen; and to
> make a group of people who, being trained using Shen, will use it in
> their own programming projects.

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