Re: Copyright enforcement and CC BY-NC licenses

On Saturday 02 August 2008 20:29:08 jonathon wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 14:42, drew Roberts  wrote:
> > Ah, ok, you are thinking bands and I am thinking broadcast radio.
>
> Even with broadcast radio, somebody other than the DJ has to track
> what is played, and when it is played. (DJ's are notoriously inept at
> keeping traffic logs.)
>
> > So, is say a bar has a live band some night and does as you suggest, who
> > pay the fees? the bar, the band, or both?
>
> The venue always pays the collection societies.

So, only the venue, that's what I thought.
>
> > Does any have figures for real word fee structures?
>
> I don't remember the dollar amounts. :(
> The club I used to hang out at had a US$10.00 cover charge.
> Everything collected at the door was given to the band. Even on an
> excellent night for the band, the collecting society tab was more than
> the band earned.  (Figure on 150+ people in the club, on an excellent
> night.)

But they are unrelated, right? You did indicate that the venue pays.
>
> Here is the way one club owner explained the costs to me.
> Have a "three drink minimum".
> * The first drink goes to the collecting society;
> * The second drink is split between the various licensing authorities,
> and the band;

So the band gets the door and a part of the second drink?

> * The third drink covers the cost to hire employees, and maintain the bar;
> * The fourth drink was when the bar could begin to think that there
> might be a net profit, for the evening.

Anyone know more about how these things work?

What about on nights when no band plays? Are the fees different for live 
versus non-live music? How does that jukebox game I dimly remember work if it 
still does?
>
> ###
>
> http://www.ccli.com/usa/WhatWeOffer/LicenseFees.aspx is a link to the
> copyright license fees for products handled by CCLI.
>
> For the typical congregation in the US, that fee is US$170 for the
> right to do the following:
>     *  Print songs, hymns and lyrics in bulletins, programs, liturgies
> and songsheets for use in congregational singing;
>     * Create your own customized songbooks or hymnals for use in
> congregational singing;
>     * Create overhead transparencies, slides or use any other format
> whereby song lyrics are visually projected (such as computer graphics
> and projection) for use in congregational singing;
>     * Arrange, print and copy your own arrangements (vocal and
> instrumental) of songs used for congregational singing, where no
> published version is available;
>     * Record your worship services (audio or video) provided you only
> record live music. Accompaniment tracks cannot be reproduced. You may
> charge up to $4 each for audiocassette tapes and CDs, and $12 each for
> videotapes and DVDs;
>
> If the congregation wants to broadcast that service live, they have to
> deal with various other agencies, such as _The Harry Fox Agency_,
> which has no qualms about claiming that payments on behalf of Charles
> Wesley (1707-1788) must be made to them.

Don't get me started...
>
> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 15:58, Peter Brink  wrote:
> > but he needs permission from the copyright holder of the "original" work
> > to publish and distribute his adaptation.
>
> Under US law, permission to distribute a derivative audio work is
> automatically granted, once the royalty payments have been made.  The
> copyright owner has no option, but to allow the derivative work.
>
> However, for non-audio media, the copyright owner does have the option
> of refusing to allow the distribution of a derivative work.
> (Arguably, the copyright owner also has the option to refusing to
> allow the creation of a derivative work.)

Actually, if I understood this bit properly, the automatic parts only apply to 
non-dramatic music / audio? You can't take advantage of this for dramatic 
musical works from what I understood.
>
> For both audio and non-audio works, the creator of the original work
> does get a royalty payment.   For audio media, it is a predetermined
> amount.  

Actually, I think even here you can nogotiate better terms than the law 
requires and I always understood that the big boys at least generally do.

> For other types of media, it is negotiated between the 
> copyright owners.
>
> xan
>
> jonathon

all the best,

drew