I have asked SEVERAL times, I have followed procedure, and I KEEP
getting these e-mails! PLEASE REMOVE ME!


On Jul 2, 2008, at 3:25 PM, discuss-request <at> freeculture.org wrote:

> Send Discuss mailing list submissions to
>       discuss <at> freeculture.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>       http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>       discuss-request <at> freeculture.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>       discuss-owner <at> freeculture.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Discuss digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: New Girl Talk (Elizabeth Stark)
>    2. Re: New Girl Talk (Fred Benenson)
>    3. Re: New Girl Talk (Elizabeth Stark)
>    4. Re: New Girl Talk (Brian Rowe)
>    5. Re: New Girl Talk (Elizabeth Stark)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:50:35 -0400
> From: "Elizabeth Stark" <emstark <at> gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] New Girl Talk
> To: "Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization in
>       particular" <discuss <at> freeculture.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <55bea5620807021450j77818c81w37f09367f50cb4cc <at> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hmm..if people remix GT's "CC" album and also get sued, now that
> would be a
> case...
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Fred Benenson
> <fred.benenson <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Feel free not to download the album, or download it and not pay
>> for it.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Rob Myers <rob <at> robmyers.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>>> Yup, super sketchy b/c you can't separate those elements out
>>>> from the
>>>> infringing work itself.
>>>
>>> NC-ing appropriation art is, on balance, a bit of a fail.
>>>
>>> http://robmyers.org/weblog/2006/03/26/sampling-artists-and-nc/
>>>
>>> And it doesn't explain the situation to consumers, who will
>>> assume that
>>> the license means that they can't be hassled over posessing an
>>> infringing work.
>>>
>>> - Rob.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://freeculture.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/
> 20080702/76399541/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:51:28 -0400
> From: "Fred Benenson" <fred.benenson <at> gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] New Girl Talk
> To: "Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization in
>       particular" <discuss <at> freeculture.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <8e447b720807021451n7027bd7ejb5aaa184874a8cb <at> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I assume you mean sued by the original samplee, not GT
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Elizabeth Stark <emstark <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hmm..if people remix GT's "CC" album and also get sued, now that
>> would be a
>> case...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Fred Benenson
>> <fred.benenson <at> gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Feel free not to download the album, or download it and not pay
>>> for it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Rob Myers <rob <at> robmyers.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>>>> Yup, super sketchy b/c you can't separate those elements out
>>>>> from the
>>>>> infringing work itself.
>>>>
>>>> NC-ing appropriation art is, on balance, a bit of a fail.
>>>>
>>>> http://robmyers.org/weblog/2006/03/26/sampling-artists-and-nc/
>>>>
>>>> And it doesn't explain the situation to consumers, who will
>>>> assume that
>>>> the license means that they can't be hassled over posessing an
>>>> infringing work.
>>>>
>>>> - Rob.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://freeculture.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/
> 20080702/7b032cf6/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:52:53 -0400
> From: "Elizabeth Stark" <emstark <at> gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] New Girl Talk
> To: "Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization in
>       particular" <discuss <at> freeculture.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <55bea5620807021452s6f72e2bby7d9a248dc8547498 <at> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Exactly.
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Fred Benenson
> <fred.benenson <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I assume you mean sued by the original samplee, not GT
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Elizabeth Stark
>> <emstark <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm..if people remix GT's "CC" album and also get sued, now that
>>> would be
>>> a case...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Fred Benenson
>>> <fred.benenson <at> gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Feel free not to download the album, or download it and not pay
>>>> for it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Rob Myers <rob <at> robmyers.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>>>>> Yup, super sketchy b/c you can't separate those elements out
>>>>>> from the
>>>>>> infringing work itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> NC-ing appropriation art is, on balance, a bit of a fail.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://robmyers.org/weblog/2006/03/26/sampling-artists-and-nc/
>>>>>
>>>>> And it doesn't explain the situation to consumers, who will
>>>>> assume that
>>>>> the license means that they can't be hassled over posessing an
>>>>> infringing work.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Rob.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://freeculture.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/
> 20080702/330489a4/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:21:55 -0700
> From: "Brian Rowe" <brian <at> freedomforip.org>
> Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] New Girl Talk
> To: "Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization in
>       particular" <discuss <at> freeculture.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <7b43a54c0807021521v7a989978j2ee7573d6ee1c22e <at> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am willing to donate to the GT legal defense fund.
>
> Fair use is tough defense especially when the work is used
> commercially and
> the work is not a direct parody. I am also not sure one can have a
> copyright
> interest in an unauthorized derivative work.  The legal questions are
> fascinating and their is a need to enable this type of creative
> work either
> through legislation or better fair use precedents.
>
> The album is great!
>
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Elizabeth Stark <emstark <at> gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hmm..if people remix GT's "CC" album and also get sued, now that
>> would be a
>> case...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Fred Benenson
>> <fred.benenson <at> gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Feel free not to download the album, or download it and not pay
>>> for it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Rob Myers <rob <at> robmyers.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>>>> Yup, super sketchy b/c you can't separate those elements out
>>>>> from the
>>>>> infringing work itself.
>>>>
>>>> NC-ing appropriation art is, on balance, a bit of a fail.
>>>>
>>>> http://robmyers.org/weblog/2006/03/26/sampling-artists-and-nc/
>>>>
>>>> And it doesn't explain the situation to consumers, who will
>>>> assume that
>>>> the license means that they can't be hassled over posessing an
>>>> infringing work.
>>>>
>>>> - Rob.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Brian Rowe
> Freedom for IP
> (206) 335-8577 (Cell)
>
> Access To Justice Technology Principles
> www.ATJWeb.org
>
> Freedom for IP
> www.FreedomforIP.org
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://freeculture.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/
> 20080702/03f7d860/attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 18:25:08 -0400
> From: "Elizabeth Stark" <emstark <at> gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [FC-discuss] New Girl Talk
> To: "Discussion of Free Culture in general and this organization in
>       particular" <discuss <at> freeculture.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <55bea5620807021525n703dbbecoe386cf3ec0b97359 <at> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>>
>> I am also not sure one can have a copyright interest in an
>> unauthorized
>> derivative work.
>
>
> Yeah, the caselaw that I recall says that you don't..although we have
> discussed hypotheticals in law school where when the infringing
> part is so
> separate from the rest of the work that there may still be a
> copyright in
> the rest of it (imagine a 3 second sample once during a 10 minute
> song.)
> This is not the case here.
>
> But what that means is GT has no copyright of his own. Fascinating..
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 6:21 PM, Brian Rowe <brian <at> freedomforip.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I am willing to donate to the GT legal defense fund.
>>
>> Fair use is tough defense especially when the work is used
>> commercially and
>> the work is not a direct parody. I am also not sure one can have a
>> copyright
>> interest in an unauthorized derivative work.  The legal questions are
>> fascinating and their is a need to enable this type of creative
>> work either
>> through legislation or better fair use precedents.
>>
>> The album is great!
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Elizabeth Stark
>> <emstark <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm..if people remix GT's "CC" album and also get sued, now that
>>> would be
>>> a case...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Fred Benenson
>>> <fred.benenson <at> gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Feel free not to download the album, or download it and not pay
>>>> for it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Rob Myers <rob <at> robmyers.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Elizabeth Stark wrote:
>>>>>> Yup, super sketchy b/c you can't separate those elements out
>>>>>> from the
>>>>>> infringing work itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> NC-ing appropriation art is, on balance, a bit of a fail.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://robmyers.org/weblog/2006/03/26/sampling-artists-and-nc/
>>>>>
>>>>> And it doesn't explain the situation to consumers, who will
>>>>> assume that
>>>>> the license means that they can't be hassled over posessing an
>>>>> infringing work.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Rob.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Rowe
>> Freedom for IP
>> (206) 335-8577 (Cell)
>>
>> Access To Justice Technology Principles
>> www.ATJWeb.org
>>
>> Freedom for IP
>> www.FreedomforIP.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
>> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://freeculture.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20080702/
> a013e6ec/attachment.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss <at> freeculture.org
> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> End of Discuss Digest, Vol 19, Issue 3
> **************************************

_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Discuss <at> freeculture.org
http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss